为培养具备全面与专门国际商务知识技能，同时兼备人文素质和心理素质的高级复合型国际商务人才，yl9193永利集团特邀美国马里兰大学副教授Mark M. Michalski来华教学。Mark是一位拥有丰富实践与教学经验的教授，曾在世界银行、欧洲银行等多个国际经济组织工作。目前，他在美国知名学府马里兰大学（University of Maryland）教授管理、商业道德与领导经验（Management, Business Ethics and Leadership Experience）等课程。下面是我们对Mark的采访。(注：编者对于原话有所删改)

细说华大之旅

Q1：Do you enjoy Chinese dishes?

Mark：Yes, of course, I do enjoy and love Chinese cooking. I have tasted and experienced some very delicious food dishes here and I love it! Especially, I like dumplings and vegetable dishes. In fact, I had a lunch with one of my students and we had dumplings yesterday. (Midwinter)

(Q1:您喜欢中国菜吗？

Mark: 我喜欢中国菜。我很高兴我能在这里吃到很多美味的中国佳肴。我尤爱饺子。昨天我还和我的一个学生吃饺子呢。）

Q2：Have you picked up some Chinese during this period？

此时，于是Mark 从胸前西服口袋中拿出一张纸向我们展示了他新学的中文。“你好”，“我想说中文”，“我中文不好”，“我想和你做朋友”，“你真聪明”等中文在Mark口中一点也不违和。

Q3：Why did you choose Innovation and Entrepreneurial Management to teach?

Mark: Actually I was asked to teach it here. I also teach similar courses in the USA, such as a vocation of business, for example. I also teach management and business & leadership experience courses. I have interests in business and I’m curious about what makes a society entrepreneurial and innovative. And I believe that entrepreneurship is something that you can learn. Anybody, in fact: everybody can be entrepreneur. But not everybody should be one. But anybody can and should be innovative. That’s what makes our life so fascinating.

(Q3:为什么选择教授《创新与创业管理》这门课程？

Mark：事实上，我是受邀来这里授课的。我在美国也教授一些类似的课程。我也教授管理、商业与领导力课程。我对商业充满兴趣，对社会创新创业的诱因充满兴趣。我认为，创业是可以学习的。理论上，任何人都可以成为创业家，但并不是所有人都需要成为创业家，然而，所有人都能且应该养成创新思维。这会使我们的生活更具魅力。

Q4：Why did you choose to teach in Huaqiao University for a month?

Mark: There’re many reasons, and one of them is that this is an international university. There are lots of people who speak English well here. And I love meeting people and I love teaching. When I find people who are energetic and pleased to learn, I’m very happy. What’s more, I want to experience and see all these new developments in China. China is one of the most dynamic and one of the fastest growing economics in the world. I want to really see what Chinese people culture is like. And I am very pleased to see that it is very dynamic. So many younger people and so many new things are being produced here.

（Q4：为什么您会选择来华大教学一月呢？

Mark：有很多原因，其中之一就是永利集团是一所国际化的大学，这里的师生英语都非常棒。我喜欢认识更多的人、喜欢教书。当我发现这里的师生充满活力、虚心好学时，我格外开心。我想亲身经历中国的快速发展。中国是世界范围内经济最具活力、发展速度最快的国家之一。我想了解中国文化。很高兴的是，我发现这里充满活力。这里的年轻人青春洋溢，催生着很多新鲜事物。）

Q5：What is your teaching style in class? I know you have also worked for many international organizations such as the UN, Word Bank and European Bank. Will you combine your own experience with some knowledge when you teach your students?

Mark：That’s right. My teaching style is rather informal. I use the so-called Socratic Method. I ask probing questions, before one can properly respond. I prefer to call my class a seminar or a workshop. You float ideas and thus create better responses. I do just talk nor lecture only, because I believe real education cannot be a passive listening. It is not the thing that you just seat, hear or listen only. I believe education today has to be engaging. It has to be active and very much a creative form of learning. In the past, when teacher was speaking, students were just listening. In 72 hours they forget 80 %. When teacher in the past was lecturing he expected students to memorize. And this model worked for many centuries. But nowadays, you do not do that because we can access instantly information and knowledge through the media. Internet allows for many new forms of learning. With the I-phones, androids, and the new social media you get the news and the information rapidly, instantly. Now, we have to learn how to limit the useless information and how to think creatively. Business now is becoming invasive, intrusive and disruptive. We have to be selective and more defensive about what we allow to access our brain. We have to think very constructively, because lots of knowledge exists on the networks. If you have time and a good will and mind, you can open the internet and you can go to UQ, you can go to Baidu, and you can gain useful knowledge. It means that you can enhance you good education at this University by self-learning online by taking “mooc.org” courses, or accessing edx.org. So the model of teaching and learning is dramatically changing.

(Q5：您的教学风格是什么样的？您曾在许多国际组织像世界银行、欧洲银行工作过。那您在教学生的时候，会把个人经历和理论知识结合吗？

Mark：当然。我的教学方式不太正式，我会使用所谓的“苏格拉底问答法”。在学生能够正确回答问题之前，我会抛出一些探索性的问题。我更喜欢把我的课堂叫做研讨班。你只有发散思维，才能想出更好的答案。我不喜欢只是我一个人在讲，因为我认为好的教育不是被动的听课，不是一个学生坐在那里，仅仅是看和听的过程。我始终认为教育需要让学生参与进来，积极主动地学习。在过去，老师讲，学生听。在72个小时内，学生们会遗忘80%的内容。过去的老师要求学生去记诵。这种模型沿用了几个世纪。但是今天，你不必也不能这样做。因为我们有科技，有多媒体，能够快速获取信息与知识。互联网衍生出了多种学习形式。自从有了苹果、安卓以及新媒体，我们可以迅速地获取新闻与信息。现在，我们要学会限制无用的信息，学会如何创造性思维。商业变得更具侵入性、渗透性与破坏性。我们要学会选择，提高防范。我们需要学会建设性地思考，因为所有的知识都可以在互联网上找到。如果你有时间、有意愿，你完全可以打开电脑登录UQ或百度或其他搜索引擎寻找你想要的信息，去学习。这意味着现如今，只要你有意愿，你就可以获得好的教育。所以当今的教学和学习模型都发生了很大的变化。）

Q6：You have been teaching in Huaqiao University for about one month. Do you think there are some differences between Chinese students and American students?

Mark: Yeah, what I like about Chinese students is that they are not only hard-working, and they’re bright, smart and eager to learn more. They are very modest. I think they also are a little bit too shy. I think they are not as outgoing as they could be. In fact, in one of my first day of teaching, I asked questions but nobody was interested to answer. They didn’t want to participate nor raise their hands. I said I was not going to change that and in my seminar, you are going to speak up and speak a lot! I am happy to report that by the time of the semesters’ end we have lots of students who are no more afraid to speak. I think it’s great! I am very happy to see that students are very accommodating, very open and very interested in learning.

(Q6:您在华大教学快一月了，您认为中国学生和美国学生在课堂上存在不同吗？

Mark：是的。我是说我喜欢中国学生的勤奋和聪明。但我认为他们有点太害羞了，太封闭自己了，他们不像他们应该的那样开放。事实上，在我来华大的第一堂课上，我问问题的时候，没有人愿意举手回答。我告诉他们，我不会改变自己的方式，因为在我的课程中，你们需要更多的发言。令我很欣慰的是我们有些学生不害怕发言了，我认为这是很棒的变化。我很高兴看到学生们是很愿意调整自己，很开放的，很热爱学习的。）

Q7：What’s your most unforgettable thing during teaching?

Mark: The most pleasant, memorable and unforgettable thing is when students are really saying that I really get it now, I really like what I am discovering and learning. I really get practical ideas and I am going to use these ideas.

(Q7:在教学中，令您最难忘的事是什么？

Mark：最令我难忘的事莫过于学生们说他们真的明白了，真的热爱他们所学的东西，真的意识到他们将要使用他们的思想的时候。）

分享个人经历

Q8：Not only as a teacher and a professor in American University, you also work for some institutions and write academic papers. Do you feel stressed sometimes？

Mark：Well, many times! I think stress is normal, it is unavoidable and can be good. Naturally, we tend to avoid stressful situations. We need to accept it as a part of life. If you do not experience stress, it means that you do not care, or that nothing matters. Stress can be creative and constructive. Yet it has a coercive component and if not used well, it can lead to frustrations. If we have clear idea about a problem and a solution, know where and how you can get a help – there is less stress.

(Q8:不仅仅是大学老师、教授，您还在许多组织工作，您还写一些学术文章。那您有时候会觉得压力大吗？ Mark：呃，很多时候吧。我认为有压力是正常的。自然地，压力是无形的。如果你感觉没有压力，说明你不在乎。压力有时候是具有创造性和建设性的。）

Q9：So, when you feel stressed, what will you do to relax yourself?

Mark: I do physical exercises. I do love to walk, bicycle. I go regularly to gym. I go with my friends for long walks and we discuss and talk. When you walk it’s a very good way to utilize both your physical and mental abilities.

(Q9:所以，当您感觉压力大时，您是怎样是自己放松的？

Mark：我做很多锻炼.我热爱运动，骑车。我去体育馆。我常和朋友去体育馆讨论工作，当你散步的时候，你和朋友讨论问题。我认为这是一种劳逸结合的方式，你能充分利用你的体能和智力，让它们得到放松和锻炼。

Q10：Have you ever experienced some interesting things or met some interesting people when you worked for World Bank and European Bank？

Mark：Yeah，I am very lucky to have worked with some wonderful people. I highly respect former World Bank President Jim Wolfensohn. I worked also for Leszek Balcerowicz, President of the Central Bank and Deputy prime Minister in Poland. One of the great American writers Michael Novak is also my hero. We can always learn from some wonderful people in this world, if we take interest in them. And they can really teach you a lot. Some people who are small, not great, not generous, will push you away. But if you get to know some great, wonderful and brilliant people, when you reach them, and meet them -- they will help you. Because they also got some help in their earlier life.

(Q10:您在世界银行和欧洲银行工作的时候有遇到过什么有趣的人或有趣的事吗？

Mark：是的，我觉得我能和一些杰出的人工作我很幸运，我也很尊敬他们。我们经常能从一些杰出的人身上学到一些东西，他们真的能教给我们很多。那些狭隘的，不聪明的人常常会推开你当你向他们求助时。而恰恰是那些伟大的，聪明的人，当你遇见他们，向他们求助时，他们会慷慨地帮助你。）

畅谈学习建议

About reading books

You shouldn’t read bad, nor even good books. Of course, bad books destroy your mind. And you should not read good books - even though they are good. There are many good books, but we have little time here in our life. So, you should read only the very best books. And you can learn from those best books. Because the best books can teach you the best: ideas, values, skills. Good books will teach you to be good, to be average. But in today’s world, average is not good enough. You have to be excellent. You have to be doing to the best of your possible abilities. You have to learn from the best. And that in management is another word for “benchmarking”. What is benchmarking? It means to measure to the best. That’s the thing we are all supposed to do. It’s not easy, but it’s doable. How do we find the best books? There’re many ways. You seek advice from excellent people, from highly effective, highly respected people. You can search on the internet the top classical books of all time. When you find the book which speaks to your mind, to your heart, you will feel excited, inspired, elevated. Books change lives. Great books help you become great! And today you really can learn, you can listen on Mp3, or Internet or in the I-phone. You can select your lifetime learning plan. And you can read only ten, or twenty books during the year. And then you can create a club. You can find like-minded people, who like books like you. When you communicate ideas -- you help create new ideas. And when you walk, drive, exercise, you can listen. You can combine the physical effort with the mental or spiritual. You are doing both exercises--- physical health and mental health.

(关于读书：我们不应该读无益之书，这不仅浪费我们时间，更腐蚀我们思想。我们也不能仅仅拘泥于读好书，因为好书太多而我们的时间是有限的。我们应该读最好的书，在其中我们可以学到很多。好书能让我们变得优秀，但仅仅只是优秀。在当今世界，仅仅优秀是不够的，我们需要卓越。我们需要始终尽最大能力，需要尽可能地在最好的书中汲取养分。这就是我们所说的（对自我的）标杆管理。什么是（对自我的）标杆管理，就是努力去做到最好。这是我们每个人都应该去尝试的事。这不简单，但它是可行的。那我们又怎样找到最好的书？有很多方式。可以向卓越的人征求建议，亦可以在网上查找筛选。

也许有时我们觉得最好的书很无聊，但是要知道学习在某种程度上就是去克服自己内心的灰霾，惰性和狭隘。当我们找到一本书，它真正贴近我们的思想，我们的灵魂，我们的内心时，我们会分外激动。一本最好的书，它不会只是像一些娱乐明星一样给我们提供转瞬即逝的欢愉。

另外，在当今社会，如果我们真的热爱学习，迫切地渴望学习。我们不仅仅可以通过阅读纸质书籍去获取知识，还可以在Mp3上听书，在网上看电子书。我们可以为自己挑选学习时间计划表，一年可以读上百本书或十本书。我们可以一本接着一本地读，可以加入一些读书俱乐部，可以找到一些志趣相投的思想者，当我们交换思想的时候，可以获得新的思想。我们甚至可以在Mp3里下一些书，在走路的时候听一听。我们可以将身体和思想的运动结合起来。）

About learning management

Management is very popular nowadays. You need to start by learning how to manage yourself, your time, energy and your passions. Learning management is nothing hard. It is both simple and difficult. Simple is the theory. Practice is difficult. And management has many branches. There are some very technical, some focus on psychology of human behavior. There are also such as finance and accounting, marketing, international commerce and so on. You need to find what you are truly interested. Find your passion, find what makes you tick, and pay more attention to it. Sometimes it’s difficult to find what you truly like, what your mission are and what you are good at. But you have three things. You have mind, body and heart. Mind represents your thinking. Body represents your skills. Heart represents your will. First, you should acquire the best possible knowledge to know what you are learning. Second, you should develop your skills to know how you can do it. Thirdly, and most important is you inner desire. The desire in your heart answers why you choose it. So in this Trinitarian approach you can find a more easy and complete way to be all you want (and can) be. It takes time, effort and discipline. So be the best, and forget the rest!

(管理学在现如今非常流行。学习管理学不无益处。它有很多分支，包括会计学，市场营销，国际商务等等。而你需要找到你真正感兴趣的方面并为之花更多的精力。有时很难找到你真正感兴趣的，你的使命，你的长处。但幸而我们有三样东西——头脑，身体和心。头脑代表我们的思想，身体代表我们的技能，心代表我们的意愿。首先，我们需要掌握理论知识从而清楚我们究竟在学什么。其次，我们要发展我们的技能从而知道怎样去实践。最后也是最重要的是欲望。你内心的欲望回答了你为什么做出如此选择。)

采访现场

作者：许薇

翻译：许薇

摄影：李于田淏

记录：张雨蓉

对话昨天为冬至